You can run OSX on a PC. A buddy of mine has it, requires a hack here and there, but it works.
I hate premade PCs from vendors. They usually use shitty freaking hardware, over charge you for it, and it comes preloaded with loads of bullshit.
Once more, if you buy a Dell (or others), the software that comes preloaded on contains spyware, adware, and all that garbage, and tech support wont help you remove it. It violates their agreement. Or something like that, I heard anyways.
Not to mention the damned things are branded, embedded with the some of the companies bullshit.
I would never recommend a prebuilt computer. Unless the user is a complete idiot and only uses it to check email and type resumes.
Dell are one of the better pre-built companies and have built themselves a reasonable reputation as far as quality goes (though i hear numerous bad reports about their service) There are others like mesh who will build you a nice pc out of decent enough componants and when they say theyre gonna install the OS, thats what they do.
What you really need to avoid is the high street stores who stack em high and sell them cheap with the hope that you subscribe to this that and the other and go back to them when the shitty cheap hardware they build with fails.
"What you really need to"... do is build your own, haha. Its really not that hard, and Im sure there are walkthroughs on how to do it. And most people nowadays probably know someone capable of doing it if they dont want to themselves.
But the problem is that when Apple switches to Inter platform (is it already sure that they will be using x86 architecture?) it will become even more important for Apple to control their hardware. The main reason why PC hardware is so cheap is that there are literally hundreds of different companies making the hardware, competition is harsh and they try to make a cut by catering different customers needs, like gamers and professional designers and so on.
It wouldn't matter if Apple would start to sell their hardware in bulk, it would still be pretty expensive since Apple has the only parts that go with Apple, OR we will go back to the stoneage like with PC shoddy driver support at best, there is a good reason why Apple likes things like they are, they can control everything, thusly making sure that everything works like a clock.
If you want cheaper hardware, you should introduce more hardware vendors than just one, and that brings in trouble, you'd have to ensure the perfect support of hundreds of different parts and take the risk that there isn't always going to be the perfect machine like there is now. I seriously oppose the idea, if you want to build your own machine with cheap parts and put Linux in it, why bother buying a Mac? Isn't that why PCs are there?
When we introduce several hardware vendors and only OS support from the parent company Apple with hardware chip manufacturers bringing driver support I really start to see PC here people.
Kosmo, you're missing my point entirely I think. If Apple simply licensed it's hardware like nVidia licenses its gpu's only to a certain handful of vendors, things would be sweet. Apple already contracts many of your common PC variety manufacturers to build their boards and other various chips, so allowing those manufacturers to wholesale thier hardware would be icing on the cake. The point is that if they did that, if you had the choice between OSX and BSD/Linux, and the hardware was there to build up on your own, you would more than likely drop OSX rather than tinker with any other linux distro.
Apple would just have to make their choices very carefully, and help make their market aware of who are the real vendors vs those who are not. It's not rocket science, there are plenty of hardware vendors who do things like this, it's just the matter of finding the right ones who they can trust.
*nods with lech - while there are hundreds of hardware vendors for pc's, there are a couple whom you know will have the correct support/drivers/etc and who you can feel more confident about system stability and such when you use their parts. I *could* buy a pcchips mobo with a nobrand nic... but i know thats asking for trouble when i want my pc solid as a rock, so i choose the well supported asus mobo's and other recommended products. The same could go for apple, but if they kept their control on who vended their hardware they retain the good reputation they have, allbeit at a slightly higher (but considerably lower than current) end price.
I stick with only a few different Mobo manufacturers who have been solid with me in the past and produce really reliable equipment. Even apple has had flakey hardware in the past which has warranted several complaints. But either way, Apple themselves is never responsible for directly manufacturing the hardware, it's always some 3rd party, they simply put it all together and slap a huge price on it all. And I'm certain that what they get is considerably much less than what the consumer purchases it for (obviously). They never pass down any kinds of savings down to the consumer. If they did, I think they would see everyone buying it up and then some.
Lech, I think that you have completely misunderstood how Apple works, they are far from "they simply put it all together and slap a huge price on it all."
Apple not only does what you said, carefully chooses who they work with and trust, chooses the parts they want for their product, take it, test it, makes sure they work properly with every part in their system, makes sure the OS fully supports it and properly uses it's functionality, makes sure all the products they take from the hardware manufacturer are working correctly and then when everything works like well oiled machine they sell it and ship it.
Prettymuch the same thing Dell/HP/IBM does, none of these manufacture all the parts of their computers, but they don't have the benefit of having their own OS and having close relationships with diffirent chip manufacturers.
Look, all I'm saying is that having DIY Apples with different parts from several different manufacturers is not that good for the stability, I have built computers all my life, just like many here I have built all my own computers, computers for my family and friends, but I understand that the thing is just as good as is the sum of it's parts, if I just bought the best damn CPU, GPU, Memory, HDDs and soundcards and cut the corner on mobo the thing is just as good as the mobo is, or if you go for the high speed mark on all of your parts but go with 256megs of slow memory, your machine will be as good as shit.
Never have I paid little for something that is good.
Well, aside from a custom bios image and some proprietary ram, I hate to break it to you, but Dell/HP/Gateway is no different from some other systems. Sure they run with the best parts available, but in hindsight, 90% of those machines are just about anything you can pick off of a shelf. I'll give Dell bonus points for making some kick ass laptops and flatscreens, but in all seriousness, the hardware is not much different from your run of the mill DIY system when it gets down to the desktops. In some cases, it's either the same, or worse, especially if you were over-charged.
I too have built PC's and compared them to friends who've purchased through various OEM's and servicing their machines when asked didn't reveal anything special about them. It's typically a rebranded Asus/Gigabyte/Tyan board with a couple of extra's. Many of which you can purchase directly from the manufacturer for a fraction of the cost you pay through Dell or anyone else. In many cases, any DIY setup can usually smoke the OEM competition if you're going for quality and stability, especially when you know what you're doing.
Seriously, find me any OEM desktop computer out on the market today and list down the parts. I'm fairly certain you could build the exact same thing if not better for a fraction of the cost with either the same or better stability and have extra cash left over to load it full of games and software. Most of the cost of any system these days is in the video and display hardware. That's where your wallet gets raped and burned.
Anyway, I am familiar how Apple functions and operates. I'm simply saying that if they're doing all that R&D, they should in turn be picking out trustworthy manufacturers and offering up their systems in pieces for the DIY folks like me. I presume the next Intel Mac is going come in an ATX or a commonly similar formfactor, so why not ship the templates to the presses and get the parts out there to those that want it. Asus was producing your iPods for a while, why not the motherboards and controller chips too? :D After all, if it's endoresed and certified with Apple, it's still a Mac then, isn't it?
But wouldn't it be just the same if Apple made Mac OS X for PCs? Why go all the trouble of finding trustworthy hardware manufacturers and still design your own hardware just so some other companies can sell it and cash in?
Kosmo, I think you have just helped me make the point there :) and afterall, its what Apple should do with the intel platform. Because it would be great.
Actually if one, even one PC hardware vendor put as much tought to their hardware as Apple does I'd like them too, why the hell do you think most of us build our racks. I have seen and used Boxx tech and Alienware computers, Dells, HPs you name it, but not a single one can come even close to the sheer engineer orgasm that is Mac.
Just today me and my cousin were talking about cooling systems in computers, both of us have gone through the trouble of installing extremely expensive and efficient water cooling units to our computers just to get the noise levels low. But what is this? Apple has intelligent built in liquid heat pipe cooling systems without extra cost, it's even in the cheapest PM G5. And THAT my friend is the advance Apple has over all others, they can design their systems ground up and just because they use the parts they have included in their designs they can do such things.
Can you even imagine how much work (and not to mention money) it would take if you built a custom wind tunnel and PM heatpipe cooling system in to your PC? Have you any idea?
So Krak, it's not only that I somehow magically love Apple without no bloody reason. Besides, how many times I have stated that I'm a gaming enthusiast with a passion to make games, and Macs just don't cut it in there.
Well, mini think of it like a car, someone designed the motor for it, but you get it straight away, hence there is no extra cost because you can't buy the car without it (or maybe you can, but there is no point,) it is not an accessory that you have to select it to come with it, thusly we can rule that there is no extra cost.
Similar but not quite. I couldnt buy a mac/pc without its processor (engine) I could buy it without electric windows. Or a sunroof. Or air conditioning.
I don't quite follow your trail of tought. It was a built in application, ofcourse there are design costs for it, there are costs for all of it's parts because it was designed, but it doesn't cost extra to the base cost of the machine.
The basic model of Saab you can go and buy from here in Finland has airconditioning, it is one of it's basic equipment, like you can choose to have it automatic or manual, also no extra charge. Now if you go and buy a Mercedes-Benz you have to pay EXTRA for the air conditoning, and you also have to pay EXTRA for automatic transmission, infact you have to pay extra for electric windows, it doesn't have any comfort level equipment in it's basic model. Saab does, think Mac as a Saab.
I don't quite think of PC's in the same way you do, Kosmo. While I've had my own fair share of PC problems, it really boils down to the errors that exist between the keyboard and chair. PC hardware has come a long way, and even apple has it's fair share of problems with hardware AND software. Usually, the first couple of hours of setting up a bare-bones system is a major pain in the ass, something is ill-configured, a jumper is on the wrong pins, or the bios is out-dated for the CPU, whatever. Then once everything is up to speed, it's golden, since I've set up this system, I haven't had any major hang-ups. It's really all the matter of what you're running on the system in terms of software. If the software is unstable, then that's usually the cause of most problems. Especially when you throw a user who's totally unfamiliar with managing a system of any calibre. And that, usually throws the monkey-wrench into the machine, nearly every time.
Once people start installing stuff, it's all downhill from there and will lead to either corruption, ill-configurations, or total system failure until you do a fresh install. I see it at least 6 times a year, and every single time (unless it's a bad drive) it's always something the user set or installed which led to the systems demise. All the while, the hardware was in pristine condition and running 100%.
All of my own computers that I have built myself and bought the parts I have needed, I haven't had a single major problem aside the OS, but I know that I could go with Linux which would suck for me, so I take the problems of the OS and make with it. I don't see it so bad that I have to reinstall my OS every now and then, heck I'd have to do it anyway since Winnie doesn't work well with old install if you changed any major part of your configuration.
And yes, Mac can be a total disaster too with someone who doesn't know jack shit about computers and wants to try every single thing he can do with the machine in the universe even without the knowledge. And as for what I understand hardware always works 100% It's the software that is always the problem, never hardware.
Thats not true Kosmo. Cheap, poorly made hardware can cause massive problems. Can be some of the hardest problems to diagnose even, cause most people dont think about them.
For example, my system. When I first got it I had tons of issues. Random lockups, BSOD's. Everything. I tried drivers, settings, formatting, reinstalling, all kinds of shit. Turns on it was my soundcard that was causing all the problems. Shitty onboard products. Replaced the soundcard and have not seen a BSOD, or had an issue since.
Same goes with faulty power supplies, and bad ram. Those can cause all sorts of problems. IMO anything onboard sucks ass. Onboard video is weak, good enough for school word proc. and thats it. Onboard sounds blows too, usually sounds like shit and in my experience caused a lot of system crashes.
To be honest, I've never had had a major issue with onboard sound at least in this rig. It's actually better than anything I've had previously and is quite good. Not to say that all onboard sound is great. The only major issue I've had with this systems onboard sound is when I tried to play Diablo II and it would randomly cause lockups because Diablo was attempting to access something that wasn't available to it (blizzard sucks in that respect) and I haven't played the game as a result of that issue and their very unhelpful tech support. As far as onboard video goes, I won't even bother with it, onboard sound and gigabit lan isn't as bad as you may think. I've actually had a friend have more problems with his SoundBlaster than I've had with this onboard sound :)
Any hardware over time can develop or come with faults, that's a given. It's what you're doing with the system in the end that really counts.