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Vanilla: [Closed] Vanilla 1.1.3.rc1 Release Coming Monday (Sept 10, 2007)

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  1.  
    •  
      CommentAuthorMark
    • CommentTimeSep 5th 2007
     # 1
    This is just a quick note to let you know that everyone has been working hard on fixing bugs and filling patches in the Vanilla 1.1.2 release over at the bug tracker, and there will be a new release of Vanilla this coming Monday (Sept 10, 2007).

    If you want to get any new delegates or fixes in before then, please ask on here in this discussion.
    • CommentAuthorAlexL
    • CommentTimeSep 5th 2007
     # 2
    Nice work, but I would still love to see those two fixes included:
    http://lussumo.com/community/discussion/6828/
    http://lussumo.com/community/discussion/6910/
  3.  # 3
    I've added the first to the bug tracker so hopefully someone will find time for it. I'm not so sure the second is so much a fix as a feature change. What are peoples opinions?
    • CommentAuthorAlexL
    • CommentTimeSep 5th 2007
     # 4
    it's neither a fix nor a feature. it's more like an upgrade :-)

    it needs a little(!) testing with IE 5.5 and IE 6.0 "SP 0" and SP 1 to figure out whether to include the compressed version (google might also help... yeah i'm lazy)
    but other than that there are no problems at all with it
    •  
      CommentAuthor[-Stash-]
    • CommentTimeSep 6th 2007
     # 5
    .gz files didn't work on Dreamhost for me :/
    • CommentAuthorPolo
    • CommentTimeSep 6th 2007
     # 6
    And still Mark won't include such a nifty feature as the whisper link (as in this plugin http://lussumo.com/addons/?PostBackAction=AddOn&AddOnID=214). Well, it is your choice if you want to make Vanilla more user friendly or not.
    •  
      CommentAuthor[-Stash-]
    • CommentTimeSep 6th 2007
     # 7
    I'm with Polo on this one. Until Whispering gets ripped out of the core, this *should* be in with it!
    • CommentAuthorAlexL
    • CommentTimeSep 6th 2007 edited
     # 8
    Alright, I see what I asked was a little to much at once.

    How about using protoculous-packer.js (not gz) ?
    The file is 77KB in size. Much smaller and much newer than the files that are with vanilla 1.1.2!

    // edit: this works on ALL browsers (and ALL hosters) !
    •  
      CommentAuthor[-Stash-]
    • CommentTimeSep 6th 2007
     # 9
    That gets my vote!

    Latest prototype is 99KB IIRC...
  10.  # 10
    "* Polo
    And still Mark won't include such a nifty feature as the whisper link (as in this plugin http://lussumo.com/addons/?PostBackAction=AddOn&AddOnID=214). Well, it is your choice if you want to make Vanilla more user friendly or not. "
    Actually you're wrong. It's YOUR choice whether you make vanilla more user friendly or not. That's exactly the point.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDinoboff
    • CommentTimeSep 6th 2007
     # 11
    I don't think we will bother upgrading prototype and scriptaculous in 1.1.3. There are just used in some few addons, in the core they are used in 2 pages for admins and in vanilla 1.2 we might convert vanilla to jQuery.
    • CommentAuthorbshultz
    • CommentTimeSep 6th 2007
     # 12
    I would very much like to see Vanilla standardize on jQuery.
    • CommentAuthorAlexL
    • CommentTimeSep 6th 2007
     # 13
    even if it uses jQuery vanilla should still provide protoculous - otherwise several addons would have to include each their own version.
    allthough in this case this change really doesn't have to happen with this release

    @Stash: Don't forget that aculo.us is also included ;-)
    •  
      CommentAuthorTomTester
    • CommentTimeSep 6th 2007 edited
     # 14
    Dino, hear hear, I want my jQuery...

    Somewhat related yet slightly O/T: Speaking of Javascript libraries (and size, which truly matters), has anyone checked out http://extjs.com/ (especially v2.0)?
    •  
      CommentAuthor[-Stash-]
    • CommentTimeSep 6th 2007
     # 15
    At 134KB gzipped, ext seems like massive overkill right now (to me). Sure it's impressive, but it's just too much for me currently. Compare this to jQuery which is 12KB gzipped...

    AlexL, that was exactly my point ;)
    •  
      CommentAuthor[-Stash-]
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2007 edited
     # 16
    Dinboff
    I don't think we will bother upgrading prototype and scriptaculous in 1.1.3. There are just used in some few addons, in the core they are used in 2 pages for admins and in vanilla 1.2 we might convert vanilla to jQuery.

    AlexL
    even if it uses jQuery vanilla should still provide protoculous - otherwise several addons would have to include each their own version.


    I'm with AlexL on this one. I've upgrade my prototype and scriptaculous and not had a single problem with any core or extensions using the up-to-date files. Provided that there really are no conflicts, I think it would be wise to do the upgrade just from the file size point of view (and they are more compatible and faster than the older libraries.

    I assume Vanilla 1.2 will be using jQuery 1.2?

    Oh, and any chance of getting some styling for BLOCKQUOTE and CITE in the core Vanilla style sheet? Then we could rip the style sheets out of the various quote extensions and they would all look the same!
    •  
      CommentAuthorDinoboff
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2007 edited
     # 17
    • CommentAuthorPolo
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2007
     # 18
    @Minisweeper

    WHY would I need to go download a plugin for that small - yet good feature? Do you think it is better to waste peoples' time by letting them write a username instead of clicking the "whisper" link? I am not sure if Mark is ignorant, or if he ignores user feedback, or he thinks an useful time-saving feature would not be needed in the Vanilla default codebase, or if he can't code it (which Pol certainly can) or if he is lazy. It is something you would EXPECT to be in there. To download a plugin for this feature is just unnecessary. No, making Vanilla more user friendly should not be the job of the plugins, but by the author of this forum software: Mark.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDinoboff
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2007 edited
     # 19
    Polo, the philosophy of this forum is to be plain, so that people don't have to dig into the code or into lots of option to remove something they don't need.

    The only non-essential features that remain into the core are the one that would be too difficult to add as an extension.

    You are welcome to use Vanilla and its add-ons and distribute your own forum package.
    •  
      CommentAuthorWallPhone
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2007
     # 20
    Plain. Hence the name: Vanilla.

    I wouldn't be suprised if whispers themselves don't make it to Vanilla 2. They've been on the chopping block before.

    (of course, if they're cut from the core, they will still exist as an add-on.)
  21.  # 21
    Whispers have been chopped before but adding them back in as an extension slowed things down way too much I think which is the only reason they're still in the core. Couse you could just take them out and not offer them as an extension either - but I think the whisper system is a pretty integral part of what seperates vanilla from the rest of the boring forums out there.

    Mark is none of the things you suggest. I'm pretty sure you'll find plenty of forums out there which arent using the whisper link addon and they're getting along just fine. Some people think that email notification is a MUST HAVE feature but not everyone. Whispering links are just the same. Obviously they're a much smaller and more lightweight feature - and let me say once again that I actually like the idea very much - but that still doesnt necessarily mean they have a place in the core forum engine.

    Anyway, we're losing focus. This thread is here to ensure as many bugs as possible get rolled into the 1.1.3 release of Vanilla. There are plenty of other discussions on here debating why vanilla does and doesnt have certain features in it's core.
    • CommentAuthorithcy
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2007
     # 22
    Polo,

    I'm very sorry that this random feature that you seem to think is essential was not added to this free, open source forum software, as soon as you demanded it, by the lazy, ignorant, untalented author.

    Perhaps insulting him some more will help.

    It is certainly not the case that you're missing the whole point of Vanilla.
    •  
      CommentAuthor[-Stash-]
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2007
     # 23
    While I do think the "whisper to link" it should go hand in hand with whispers being enabled, like ithcy, I agree that insulting the person who made this software available for free is not the right way to go about things!
    • CommentAuthorKrak
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2007
     # 24
    Wow, that was pretty rude.
    • CommentAuthorAlexL
    • CommentTimeSep 7th 2007
     # 25
    Let's get back to topic here.
    • CommentAuthorPolo
    • CommentTimeSep 8th 2007 edited
     # 26
    I did not insult Mark. Well, if your software gets pretty big, it is then quite obvious many software authors won't listen anymore to requests by the users, but will only care for bug reports and anything that is broken in the software. Well now I have said my opinion, and if Vanilla will not innovative anymore (Yes innovation is new features, big as small, and making it more user friendly) and keep on with the "get a plugin then" for every small feature, then there will be a lot of plugins for many obvious features. That's my opinion, and if Mark and other people here on the forum have other opinions, well, then, that's how it is. Any user input should be accepted here.
    • CommentAuthorAlexL
    • CommentTimeSep 8th 2007 edited
     # 27
    I believe/hope that any input is accepted. I agree that several obvious features have to be in vanilla rather than in plugins. the "mini-core-idea" is sometimes going too far here :(
    •  
      CommentAuthorMark
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2007
     # 28
    For the record: I'm not planning on having whispers in Vanilla 2.
    •  
      CommentAuthorVaz
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2007
     # 29
    I'm not all good with the technical side of things but can somebody explain to me whats wrong with having the whispers feature as part of vanilla?
    • CommentAuthorAlexL
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2007
     # 30
    there is nothing wrong with it, just that vanilla as a forum does not require whispers to be working.
    since not everyone wants whispers in their forum, they might be better off in an addon.
    •  
      CommentAuthorDinoboff
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2007
     # 31
    Maybe Mark is thinking of (fragement) caching issue. With whisper on, every sql request is for comment and discussion is unique.
    •  
      CommentAuthorMark
    • CommentTimeSep 10th 2007
     # 32
    @dinoboff - Exactly. By removing whispers from the core, all of the sql will be much simpler, features like deleting comments won't be as complex, there will be less code, and I will be able to start caching parts of the forum much easier.

    But people shouldn't worry about it too much - there is so much more cooler stuff coming in version 2 that the loss of whispers will be quickly forgotten.

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